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	<title>Comments on: The ABC rip-off</title>
	<atom:link href="http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on business... but mostly marketing</description>
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		<title>By: MG</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said.   

Unfortunately changing the mindset of the decision makers of an established corporate structure will be met with resistance and will effectively produce more of the similar decisions we have witnessed with ABC in regard to this conversation.  

We saw this in the Telco and US automotive industries as they evolved and the dynamics of the traditional industry was outpaced with new innovations and market forces.

The one positive difference I can see with the examples mentioned is we have a unique feedback mechanism with social media that allows for unprecedented transparency.

Unfortunately I believe the best we can hope for is an increase in the rate at which changes in thinking and corporate decision making occur.

It&#039;s a start...Cheers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.   </p>
<p>Unfortunately changing the mindset of the decision makers of an established corporate structure will be met with resistance and will effectively produce more of the similar decisions we have witnessed with ABC in regard to this conversation.  </p>
<p>We saw this in the Telco and US automotive industries as they evolved and the dynamics of the traditional industry was outpaced with new innovations and market forces.</p>
<p>The one positive difference I can see with the examples mentioned is we have a unique feedback mechanism with social media that allows for unprecedented transparency.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I believe the best we can hope for is an increase in the rate at which changes in thinking and corporate decision making occur.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a start&#8230;Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: charhoehn@gmail.com</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[charhoehn@gmail.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 05:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@MG - And that&#039;s why it WON&#039;T WORK! Because of ABC&#039;s focus on the bottom line &amp; legal issues (instead of solely concentrating on making great content), they will fail in the long run. 

It&#039;s easy to dismiss this by saying, &quot;Hey it was better for them from a legal standpoint to just steal the idea.&quot;  But that&#039;s missing point.  When you&#039;re involved in social media, you can&#039;t be evil.  It&#039;s unsustainable.

The DNA of traditional media and the DNA of social media do not mix. One has to largely be abandoned for the other. When you try to fuse them, it&#039;s a disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MG &#8211; And that&#8217;s why it WON&#8217;T WORK! Because of ABC&#8217;s focus on the bottom line &amp; legal issues (instead of solely concentrating on making great content), they will fail in the long run. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to dismiss this by saying, &#8220;Hey it was better for them from a legal standpoint to just steal the idea.&#8221;  But that&#8217;s missing point.  When you&#8217;re involved in social media, you can&#8217;t be evil.  It&#8217;s unsustainable.</p>
<p>The DNA of traditional media and the DNA of social media do not mix. One has to largely be abandoned for the other. When you try to fuse them, it&#8217;s a disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: MG</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 05:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not agree with ABC here BUT.......

I hate to say it (get ready lawyers to hate me) but I see this type of behavior in the corporate world all the time and it is MOST OFTEN a result of a conversation of middle to senior management not wanting to risk any legal issues if contact is made to a party and they do not wish to be onboard.

Despite what we may think or want to believe, these decision makers are not dumb people.  Bottom-line, I would bet a fair sum of money the conversation at ABC went like this. 

 &quot;Let&#039;s reach out to these guys and see if they want to play ball with us and work on some ideas&quot; 

&quot;What if they don&#039;t want anything to do with us?  They then will have a trail of conversations in which they can come back to us and say we stole their idea or a host of other legal issues.  That will be a disaster either financially, legally and/or public relations&quot;

&quot;The least amount of risk is taking the idea and forming it ourselves and riding out the current&quot;


Sorry guys..in the corporate world litigation conversation are  ALWAYS ABOVE the basic Revenue - Expenses conversation.  Are you surprised when most of us can say at least 1 out of 6 of our friends are lawyers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not agree with ABC here BUT&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>I hate to say it (get ready lawyers to hate me) but I see this type of behavior in the corporate world all the time and it is MOST OFTEN a result of a conversation of middle to senior management not wanting to risk any legal issues if contact is made to a party and they do not wish to be onboard.</p>
<p>Despite what we may think or want to believe, these decision makers are not dumb people.  Bottom-line, I would bet a fair sum of money the conversation at ABC went like this. </p>
<p> &#8220;Let&#8217;s reach out to these guys and see if they want to play ball with us and work on some ideas&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;What if they don&#8217;t want anything to do with us?  They then will have a trail of conversations in which they can come back to us and say we stole their idea or a host of other legal issues.  That will be a disaster either financially, legally and/or public relations&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The least amount of risk is taking the idea and forming it ourselves and riding out the current&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry guys..in the corporate world litigation conversation are  ALWAYS ABOVE the basic Revenue &#8211; Expenses conversation.  Are you surprised when most of us can say at least 1 out of 6 of our friends are lawyers?</p>
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		<title>By: charhoehn@gmail.com</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[charhoehn@gmail.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we&#039;re all in agreement here.  The details don&#039;t really matter.  ABC stole TFB&#039;s idea instead of approaching them, and that&#039;s garbage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;re all in agreement here.  The details don&#8217;t really matter.  ABC stole TFB&#8217;s idea instead of approaching them, and that&#8217;s garbage.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I am playing devil&#039;s advocate, I&#039;m not sure that what they do would qualify as fair use. Not everything that can be called a parody qualifies. I&#039;m not an attorney, but as Sean said, that&#039;s not even really the point.

The bottom line is that ABC seems to have stolen the idea outright, which was a bad call. They&#039;d have been better off just leaving it alone if they weren&#039;t in a position (for whatever reason) to engage them directly. 

As for why they chose not to hire the Fine Bros, I&#039;m not sure, but I&#039;m not quite ready to assume that they just decided to screw them over either. I know you&#039;re not buying it, but there are possible issues with the writer&#039;s guild, and there are possible issues with explicitly condoning derivative works as well.

Or maybe they just decided to rip it off rather than go about things the right way. But the question of WHY they ripped off the material is secondary. They DID rip it off, and that&#039;s inexcusable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am playing devil&#8217;s advocate, I&#8217;m not sure that what they do would qualify as fair use. Not everything that can be called a parody qualifies. I&#8217;m not an attorney, but as Sean said, that&#8217;s not even really the point.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that ABC seems to have stolen the idea outright, which was a bad call. They&#8217;d have been better off just leaving it alone if they weren&#8217;t in a position (for whatever reason) to engage them directly. </p>
<p>As for why they chose not to hire the Fine Bros, I&#8217;m not sure, but I&#8217;m not quite ready to assume that they just decided to screw them over either. I know you&#8217;re not buying it, but there are possible issues with the writer&#8217;s guild, and there are possible issues with explicitly condoning derivative works as well.</p>
<p>Or maybe they just decided to rip it off rather than go about things the right way. But the question of WHY they ripped off the material is secondary. They DID rip it off, and that&#8217;s inexcusable.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Orndorff</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean Orndorff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Chuck

As the Fines stated on their website, it isn&#039;t about legal recourse or whether or not their idea was stolen.

The simple matter is that ABC could have contacted the Fines about doing this concept for the show. They could then promote the videos to their 20k subscriber base, build a relationship with budding filmmakers, and have a great marketing opportunity. JJ Abrams and ABC could say, &quot;Hey, we really liked what these guys were doing, so we contacted them about helping to create additional content for the show.&quot; 

Everyone is wondering how new media and social networking will reflect with traditional Hollywood. This would be a great way to bridge the gap.

They really missed an opportunity to do something unique and include a great concept into the umbrella of their show.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chuck</p>
<p>As the Fines stated on their website, it isn&#8217;t about legal recourse or whether or not their idea was stolen.</p>
<p>The simple matter is that ABC could have contacted the Fines about doing this concept for the show. They could then promote the videos to their 20k subscriber base, build a relationship with budding filmmakers, and have a great marketing opportunity. JJ Abrams and ABC could say, &#8220;Hey, we really liked what these guys were doing, so we contacted them about helping to create additional content for the show.&#8221; </p>
<p>Everyone is wondering how new media and social networking will reflect with traditional Hollywood. This would be a great way to bridge the gap.</p>
<p>They really missed an opportunity to do something unique and include a great concept into the umbrella of their show.</p>
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		<title>By: charhoehn@gmail.com</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[charhoehn@gmail.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Chuck- I hope you&#039;re just playing devil&#039;s advocate when you say TFB is the one ripping ABC off.  It&#039;s absolutely fair use under parody, as you said.

And ABC does have staff writers, but to cherry-pick a unique concept like this and just run with it is pretty bad. It&#039;d be one thing if TFB had only been doing it for two weeks and had 5 fans, but they have been doing this for over a year and they&#039;ve had MILLIONS of views. 

ABC really has no excuse in this situation.  You don&#039;t kick fans to the curb, especially in the online world where evil acts like this get brought to the surface.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chuck- I hope you&#8217;re just playing devil&#8217;s advocate when you say TFB is the one ripping ABC off.  It&#8217;s absolutely fair use under parody, as you said.</p>
<p>And ABC does have staff writers, but to cherry-pick a unique concept like this and just run with it is pretty bad. It&#8217;d be one thing if TFB had only been doing it for two weeks and had 5 fans, but they have been doing this for over a year and they&#8217;ve had MILLIONS of views. </p>
<p>ABC really has no excuse in this situation.  You don&#8217;t kick fans to the curb, especially in the online world where evil acts like this get brought to the surface.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two counterpoints. First, as I understand it, ABC owns the rights to Lost and all of its characters, so the Fine Bros could be said to be the ones perpetrating the rip-off (though it could possibly be argued as fair use under parody). 

Second, ABC probably has staff writers under union contract to cover this kind of thing. And as you point out, the Fine Bros are probably edgier than ABC would like associated with their content anyway.

Is there a better way to have handled this? Probably so. In fact, they might have been best served by just leaving the concept alone rather than either trying to replicate it or engage with the original.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two counterpoints. First, as I understand it, ABC owns the rights to Lost and all of its characters, so the Fine Bros could be said to be the ones perpetrating the rip-off (though it could possibly be argued as fair use under parody). </p>
<p>Second, ABC probably has staff writers under union contract to cover this kind of thing. And as you point out, the Fine Bros are probably edgier than ABC would like associated with their content anyway.</p>
<p>Is there a better way to have handled this? Probably so. In fact, they might have been best served by just leaving the concept alone rather than either trying to replicate it or engage with the original.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Musings&#8221; and people-power &#171; Two Notes Ahead</title>
		<link>http://charliehoehn.com/2009/02/09/the-abc-rip-off/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;Musings&#8221; and people-power &#171; Two Notes Ahead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charliehoehn.com/?p=1268#comment-349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (I know it&#8217;s late&#8230; and I have a meeting in less than 6 hours!), I noticed that Charlie just posted on Hoehn&#8217;s Musings about ABC ripping off a Youtube parody of Lost &#8212; and suggested that ABC should have instead thanked, acknowledged, and possibly even [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (I know it&#8217;s late&#8230; and I have a meeting in less than 6 hours!), I noticed that Charlie just posted on Hoehn&#8217;s Musings about ABC ripping off a Youtube parody of Lost &#8212; and suggested that ABC should have instead thanked, acknowledged, and possibly even [...]</p>
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